Comments on: How I Overcame My Fear of Flash http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/ Rich Internet Applications | Flex | Adobe AIR | Java | Open Source | Linux | Enterprise Software | Cloud Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:25:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: draker http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-147802 draker Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:11:10 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-147802 Hi, Look, I had to make one additional comment. It is this: The problem with Adobe is more than just technical. It's an attitude. The attitude is: we know better than you, so do it our way, or f-off. Example: I'm browsing here with dillo (www.dillo.org), because it is small, fast, and efficient. And because my firefox was taking a rest for ten minutes after coming perilously close to death following a buggy flash player incident. I go to adobe.com to check if there is a more recent slightly-less-beta version of flash for Linux available for download yet. And what I get is: "You may not have everything you need to view certain sections of Adobe.com. Please see our site requirements. Sorry, your platform is not supported." Well, duh. Dillo doesn't support the standard plugin mechanism. But I want downloads for Firefox. Maybe give me a link? Here's a thought: put all the flash players in a directory and let me browse it. But no. I haven't passed the security check; I'm running an "unsupported platform". Imagine if I went to www.ubuntu.com, to download the latest distro, and the website said: sorry, you're running Windows. Ubuntu is for Linux only; go away. That is exactly what Adobe is telling me. This has been typical of Adobe's attitude for a decade. No, we won't release the source for flash. We won't even admit if we're working on a Linux version. Oh, OK, we are working on a Linux version, but we won't tell you any details about it or our schedule. Oh, btw, we've released it now. What's that, it doesn't work? You're probably doing it wrong. Run on Fedora Core 3.14159 with this modification and you should be OK. No? Well, don't get mad at us, it's free after all. No warranty. See? Lousy attitude. For 10 years. And it has made me hate them, very much. And the fact that their products don't work does nothing to change my feeling. Hi,
Look, I had to make one additional comment. It is this:
The problem with Adobe is more than just technical. It’s an attitude. The attitude is: we know better than you, so do it our way, or f-off.
Example: I’m browsing here with dillo (www.dillo.org), because it is small, fast, and efficient. And because my firefox was taking a rest for ten minutes after coming perilously close to death following a buggy flash player incident.
I go to adobe.com to check if there is a more recent slightly-less-beta version of flash for Linux available for download yet. And what I get is:

“You may not have everything you need to view certain sections of Adobe.com. Please see our site requirements.
Sorry, your platform is not supported.”

Well, duh. Dillo doesn’t support the standard plugin mechanism. But I want downloads for Firefox. Maybe give me a link? Here’s a thought: put all the flash players in a directory and let me browse it. But no. I haven’t passed the security check; I’m running an “unsupported platform”.

Imagine if I went to http://www.ubuntu.com, to download the latest distro, and the website said: sorry, you’re running Windows. Ubuntu is for Linux only; go away.

That is exactly what Adobe is telling me. This has been typical of Adobe’s attitude for a decade. No, we won’t release the source for flash. We won’t even admit if we’re working on a Linux version. Oh, OK, we are working on a Linux version, but we won’t tell you any details about it or our schedule. Oh, btw, we’ve released it now. What’s that, it doesn’t work? You’re probably doing it wrong. Run on Fedora Core 3.14159 with this modification and you should be OK. No? Well, don’t get mad at us, it’s free after all. No warranty.

See? Lousy attitude. For 10 years. And it has made me hate them, very much. And the fact that their products don’t work does nothing to change my feeling.

]]> By: draker http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-147797 draker Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:55:33 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-147797 After reading this article and some of the comments, it strikes me that anyone who identifies themselves as a "developer" thinks that flash/flex is a good thing. Not so sure about the others, but from my point of view, it terrible for users. You say you "firmly believe in the ideals that RMS believes". But you are one of those people "who are meant to live in contradiction". "Flash is one of those areas where I have no problem living in a contradictory reality". Right. You're a developer. Let's talk about me, the user. Is your Operating System Open Source? Yes. How about your video driver, your MP3 Player or the software behind the websites you use? Yes, yes, and yes, except for flash. Why do you ask these questions in such a haughty manner? Are you saying that if someone uses any piece of closed source software, ever, then they lose the right to advocate for open source for all time? "I've never felt that Flash Player didn put my interests as a consumer ahead of Adobe corporate interests." I take it you were born yesterday? Adobe is required by law to put its corporate interests ahead of anything else. #3: It not indexable ...but you say you can work around it. I say you can also sell a car without brakes; just build all the roads to put the intersections on top of hills. No problem. #4: Macromedia has not been super Linux friendly You got that right. I mean, the fear. Your apologist talk about Adobe Linux developers sounds like marketing feelgood speak. Show me the money. Adobe is not creating flash for Linux that works. Adobe is not creating anything else for LInux that works either. (Acrobat is marginal; I much prefer xpdf). #5: It a browser plug-in If firefox would get this right, there'd be no problem, but even with a modern browser, it's trivially easy (obviously it must be, because it happens so often) for a broken flash plugin to crash or hang the browser. I'm pretty keen on open source, but only partially for 'freedom'. A good portion of my eagerness for open source is this: if the source is open, the bugs get fixed. I must say that I am absolutely sick to death of the complete crap called 'flash plugin' distributed by Adobe for Linux. Flash 9 (after several buggy releases) was stable for quite some time. Then stupid web developers, like at the BBC, started printing stupid comments on their videos stating: to view full screen you must upgrade your flash player. Well, how about you downgrade you flashplayer, idiots, 'cause full screen worked _just_fine_ last week. No, it's my responsibility -- that's right, the user -- to live on Adobe's bleeding edge. So now I have flash player 10 that still doesn't allow full screen, and often causes my browser to lock up at 100% CPU for indeterminate amounts of time. Oh, and grabs the sound device at random times (even after flash-playing pages are closed) and interferes with my alsa sound driver. I agree with the commenter that flash should die a very fast, very painful death, and hopefully be replaced with a simple, efficient video player that actually works on more than two platforms. There's pretty much no other use for flash aside from video (and advertising), I think the usage patters have clearly indicated this. Until then, I will continue swear and stamp my feet every time some website cons me into turning on flash for them, and then I lose my entire browser context, again, as my browser implodes. After reading this article and some of the comments, it strikes me that anyone who identifies themselves as a “developer” thinks that flash/flex is a good thing. Not so sure about the others, but from my point of view, it terrible for users.
You say you “firmly believe in the ideals that RMS believes”. But you are one of those people “who are meant to live in contradiction”. “Flash is one of those areas where I have no problem living in a contradictory reality”.

Right. You’re a developer.

Let’s talk about me, the user.
Is your Operating System Open Source?
Yes.
How about your video driver, your MP3 Player or the software behind the websites you use?
Yes, yes, and yes, except for flash.

Why do you ask these questions in such a haughty manner? Are you saying that if someone uses any piece of closed source software, ever, then they lose the right to advocate for open source for all time?

“I’ve never felt that Flash Player didn put my interests as a consumer ahead of Adobe corporate interests.”

I take it you were born yesterday? Adobe is required by law to put its corporate interests ahead of anything else.

#3: It not indexable
…but you say you can work around it. I say you can also sell a car without brakes; just build all the roads to put the intersections on top of hills. No problem.

#4: Macromedia has not been super Linux friendly
You got that right. I mean, the fear. Your apologist talk about Adobe Linux developers sounds like marketing feelgood speak. Show me the money. Adobe is not creating flash for Linux that works. Adobe is not creating anything else for LInux that works either. (Acrobat is marginal; I much prefer xpdf).

#5: It a browser plug-in
If firefox would get this right, there’d be no problem, but even with a modern browser, it’s trivially easy (obviously it must be, because it happens so often) for a broken flash plugin to crash or hang the browser.

I’m pretty keen on open source, but only partially for ‘freedom’. A good portion of my eagerness for open source is this: if the source is open, the bugs get fixed.
I must say that I am absolutely sick to death of the complete crap called ‘flash plugin’ distributed by Adobe for Linux. Flash 9 (after several buggy releases) was stable for quite some time. Then stupid web developers, like at the BBC, started printing stupid comments on their videos stating: to view full screen you must upgrade your flash player. Well, how about you downgrade you flashplayer, idiots, ’cause full screen worked _just_fine_ last week.

No, it’s my responsibility — that’s right, the user — to live on Adobe’s bleeding edge. So now I have flash player 10 that still doesn’t allow full screen, and often causes my browser to lock up at 100% CPU for indeterminate amounts of time. Oh, and grabs the sound device at random times (even after flash-playing pages are closed) and interferes with my alsa sound driver.

I agree with the commenter that flash should die a very fast, very painful death, and hopefully be replaced with a simple, efficient video player that actually works on more than two platforms. There’s pretty much no other use for flash aside from video (and advertising), I think the usage patters have clearly indicated this.

Until then, I will continue swear and stamp my feet every time some website cons me into turning on flash for them, and then I lose my entire browser context, again, as my browser implodes.

]]> By: Following up on “The Microsoft of the Web” at Ted Leung on the Air http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-73224 Following up on “The Microsoft of the Web” at Ted Leung on the Air Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:39:59 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-73224 [...] the comments I found James Ward’s piece “How I overcame my fear of flash” from a few weeks ago. He basically admits that he is hoping Adobe will do the right thing on [...] [...] the comments I found James Ward’s piece “How I overcame my fear of flash” from a few weeks ago. He basically admits that he is hoping Adobe will do the right thing on [...]

]]> By: Tech Per » Blog Archive » Flash is Still Closed Source and Proprietary Technology http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-72082 Tech Per » Blog Archive » Flash is Still Closed Source and Proprietary Technology Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:23:26 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-72082 [...] flash on Linux sucked bigtime. In other words: They own us! James Ward had a nice post about how he overcame his fear of flash, and I can agree with some of it. But I think we still shall remember, that flash is [...] [...] flash on Linux sucked bigtime. In other words: They own us! James Ward had a nice post about how he overcame his fear of flash, and I can agree with some of it. But I think we still shall remember, that flash is [...]

]]> By: Ian AR http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-68037 Ian AR Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:28:49 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-68037 Great article Tom - Many of my favorite websites habitually utilize small bits of Flash but I almost always walk away from full-screen Flash pages. I see the inappropriate application of Flash, in large part, as a symptom of the power shift from printed/TV advertising/branding/promotion to their Web equivalents - Many graphic/AV designers and advertising/marketing companies are hurriedly transplanting to the Web arena - and with many clients ignorant of reality and importance usability issues, Flash provides a convenient landing spot. It's the half-sighted leading the half-sighted. I think, a common misapprehension of SEO also plays a part. Many SEO consultants sell themselves on the basis of web-stat'/SERP results and the cleverness of their techniques - Whereas, it's fundamentally a craft mixing two distinct outcomes: ergonomics and stealth promotion. Glossing-over the full ergonomic context of SEO, in Web-design, allows Flash a substantial niche. I'm not sure of the average webwide perspective but, on the retail sites I tend, search engine traffic accounts of about 50% of visitors - thus, SERP appearances must be considered a component of ergonomic design goals. With the absence of internal URLs, it's more than a matter of lacking back-buttons, it's the inability to deep-link and pant descriptive meta-data, in close association with crucial business objects. Systems designers a far better at designing profitable machine behavior - Graphic designers a somewhat better at designing customer emotions/perception and far better at making it look good. Advertising/marketing companies are great at manipulating profitable customer behavior but, many, and their purchasing equivalents (in client companies), have communication mindsets stuck in static or single time-line presentation. So the point-of-sale / project-extension is a land of Flash sensibilities, i.e. buying a graphic designers lead advertising/marketing company pitch! - Best, Ian Great article Tom – Many of my favorite websites habitually utilize small bits of Flash but I almost always walk away from full-screen Flash pages.

I see the inappropriate application of Flash, in large part, as a symptom of the power shift from printed/TV advertising/branding/promotion to their Web equivalents – Many graphic/AV designers and advertising/marketing companies are hurriedly transplanting to the Web arena – and with many clients ignorant of reality and importance usability issues, Flash provides a convenient landing spot. It’s the half-sighted leading the half-sighted.

I think, a common misapprehension of SEO also plays a part. Many SEO consultants sell themselves on the basis of web-stat’/SERP results and the cleverness of their techniques – Whereas, it’s fundamentally a craft mixing two distinct outcomes: ergonomics and stealth promotion. Glossing-over the full ergonomic context of SEO, in Web-design, allows Flash a substantial niche. I’m not sure of the average webwide perspective but, on the retail sites I tend, search engine traffic accounts of about 50% of visitors – thus, SERP appearances must be considered a component of ergonomic design goals.

With the absence of internal URLs, it’s more than a matter of lacking back-buttons, it’s the inability to deep-link and pant descriptive meta-data, in close association with crucial business objects.

Systems designers a far better at designing profitable machine behavior – Graphic designers a somewhat better at designing customer emotions/perception and far better at making it look good. Advertising/marketing companies are great at manipulating profitable customer behavior but, many, and their purchasing equivalents (in client companies), have communication mindsets stuck in static or single time-line presentation. So the point-of-sale / project-extension is a land of Flash sensibilities, i.e. buying a graphic designers lead advertising/marketing company pitch! – Best, Ian

]]> By: Tercüme bürosu http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-62290 Tercüme bürosu Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:15:31 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-62290 James Ward’s Blog » Blog Archive » How I Overcame My Fear of Flash I haven’t gotten over my fear of or distaste for flash yet, but at least it’s something I’ll consider, esp. since smart people like James Ward and Ryan Stewart stand behind it. (tags: flash programming adobe). James Ward’s Blog » Blog Archive » How I Overcame My Fear of Flash I haven’t gotten over my fear of or distaste for flash yet, but at least it’s something I’ll consider, esp. since smart people like James Ward and Ryan Stewart stand behind it. (tags: flash programming adobe).

]]> By: Creattica - Flash » Blog Archive » True Fullscreen Flash - Good or Bad? http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-13001 Creattica - Flash » Blog Archive » True Fullscreen Flash - Good or Bad? Wed, 02 May 2007 10:53:01 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-13001 [...] some of the awful uses it has been put to (a really interesting essay by James Ward called "How I overcame my fear of Flash" is worth reading on this subject) and now… all of that could be [...] [...] some of the awful uses it has been put to (a really interesting essay by James Ward called "How I overcame my fear of Flash" is worth reading on this subject) and now… all of that could be [...]

]]> By: Tom Palmer http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-10022 Tom Palmer Thu, 12 Apr 2007 04:50:01 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-10022 And thanks again for the presentation. I'm scared of registering at ZDNet, but maybe I'll get to it. Those big magazines sure know how to be unfriendly. I've started an experiment at Jyte, though: http://jyte.com/cl/flash-would-be-_the_-rich-client-if-the-player-were-open-source One other person happens to have noticed it so far. I've thought of variations on the theme, but I'll see how this one does for now. And thanks again for the presentation.

I’m scared of registering at ZDNet, but maybe I’ll get to it. Those big magazines sure know how to be unfriendly. I’ve started an experiment at Jyte, though:

http://jyte.com/cl/flash-would-be-_the_-rich-client-if-the-player-were-open-source

One other person happens to have noticed it so far. I’ve thought of variations on the theme, but I’ll see how this one does for now.

]]> By: James Ward http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-9900 James Ward Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:53:29 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-9900 Hi Tom, Thanks for coming to my JUG session last night. It was a lot of fun for me. Lots of great conversation. Here is another recent post about Open Source Flash: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Stewart/?p=340 -James Hi Tom,

Thanks for coming to my JUG session last night. It was a lot of fun for me. Lots of great conversation. Here is another recent post about Open Source Flash:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Stewart/?p=340

-James

]]> By: Tom Palmer http://www.jamesward.com/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/comment-page-1/#comment-9827 Tom Palmer Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:08:43 +0000 http://www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/02/21/how-i-overcame-my-fear-of-flash/#comment-9827 I'm the "please open source Flash/Apollo player" person from the Sacramento Java User Group meeting tonight. I've posted another comment on another blog I found too. I'm just someone (and there are lots of techies like me) who doesn't want to commit time and effort to non-open platforms. Sure there's Gnash and whatnot, but that's like the open source Java up to this point. They aren't the Java people care about. People only want one Flash, just like they only want one Java. (I'm speaking in general. Of course there are dissenting opinions.) But I want that one Flash/Apollo to be open source. Keep the tools, even the freely available Flex SDK, closed source. That's fine. If the Flash and Apollo runtimes became open source, I'd drop client-side Java real quick. And I doubt I'm alone. For now, I'll stick to Java. The point of open source is forkability, but no one wants to fork unless the steward is doing a bad job. Just keep up the good work and no fork will get anywhere beyond free R&D. Follow Sun's model for open sourcing Java (trademarks, GPL, and GPL + linking). I think it's a good one. I’m the “please open source Flash/Apollo player” person from the Sacramento Java User Group meeting tonight. I’ve posted another comment on another blog I found too. I’m just someone (and there are lots of techies like me) who doesn’t want to commit time and effort to non-open platforms. Sure there’s Gnash and whatnot, but that’s like the open source Java up to this point. They aren’t the Java people care about. People only want one Flash, just like they only want one Java. (I’m speaking in general. Of course there are dissenting opinions.) But I want that one Flash/Apollo to be open source. Keep the tools, even the freely available Flex SDK, closed source. That’s fine. If the Flash and Apollo runtimes became open source, I’d drop client-side Java real quick. And I doubt I’m alone. For now, I’ll stick to Java. The point of open source is forkability, but no one wants to fork unless the steward is doing a bad job. Just keep up the good work and no fork will get anywhere beyond free R&D. Follow Sun’s model for open sourcing Java (trademarks, GPL, and GPL + linking). I think it’s a good one.

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